Seri sez: F*** you and the horse this other guy rode in on.

September 17, 2009

For the Horde!Anna over at Too Many Annas recently posted about lumping players into categories that they all might not necessarily belong in. For example: All raiders are douchebags. All PvPers are asshats. All RPers cyber. Remember, folks: Sweeping generalizations are bad, m’kay? I’ve been over this. However, since Anna got me thinking about generalizations again… today I want to talk, specifically, about the Faction Factor.

The Faction Factor is the intangible variable that allows every WoW player, regardless of their own chosen faction, to bitch about and/or act out toward the opposing faction. It really is kind of amazing to watch. If you play Alliance… then the Horde is full of node-stealing quest-mob-camping weasels with nothing better to do than give you a hard time. If you play Horde… then the Alliance is full of node-stealing quest-mob-camping weasels with nothing better to do than give you a hard time. Oh, and Blizzard loves them more. (QQ.)

Add in the complication of PvP and you’ve got the potential for even more drama. Anna is absolutely correct: Not all PvPers are asshats. Unfortunately, there are a lot of asshats that PvP and PvP can turn some of the nicest people INTO asshats. Contrary to popular belief, asshattery is NOT limited to a particular faction. Hell, I have FRIENDS that fit this bill. They’re nice people, I swear, but showing them a PvP flagged enemy is like waving a red cape in front of a bull. Go stand in front of any meeting stone in Northrend, flag up, and I guarantee that someone is going to throw down without any additional provocation. Why? Because they can. Because, obviously, showing up at a place like this wearing a flag like that… well. You were “asking for it.”

In battlegrounds, no matter which side you’re on, if you’re losing then your team “always sucks” and the other team “always wins.” Even outside of battlegrounds, people will complain about how the other faction “always wins” a particular battleground. I dunno about you, but it’s pretty much a crapshoot for me if I’m running without a premade. Heck, I can spend hours losing game after game in a battleground, then swap to a char in the same bracket/battlegroup but the opposite faction and pick up my losing streak right where I left off. Then again, that could just mean I suck at PvP. (A supposition I’ve never really contested.)

Many is the time I have heard/read an exasperated “F***ing Alliance!” or “F***ing Horde!” after someone has encountered a wily jerkwad in its natural habitat. It’s not usually, “Man this guy is a jerk.” Instead, it’s usually, “Man, those guys are always jerks.” It’s easy to vilify a faceless enemy, and it’s easier to be a jerk to someone that can’t (or won’t) call you on it. An eye for an eye is one thing; I’m all for justifiable retaliation, but when the person you’re ‘teaching a lesson’ is just some poor schmuck in the wrong place at the wrong time… how is that justice?

Jerks.Nonetheless, this is the world (of Warcraft) we play in, and the Alliance and Horde are at war. It’s not all kittens & rainbows, so maybe a certain amount of knee-jerk aggression is to be expected. But if you’re going to engage in rampant douchebaggery, do it for the right reasons. Ganking someone at a meeting stone simply because someone else ganked you at a meeting stone last week is stupid. Ganking someone at a meeting stone because “<insert faction here> are jerks” is stupid. Ganking someone at a meeting stone because they’re the enemy and that’s what you do… well… I guess I can’t fault you for that. However, you then lose every right to mock roleplayers. Who’s the “carebear” now, biatch??



  1. A wonderful article, and something that has taken me a while to come to terms with. πŸ˜‰

    I think it’s a lot easier to hate something that you can’t communicate with. Another group that falls into this category is “Chinese gold farmers.” Lots of people hate those guys, but it’s just another job to them.

    I have plenty of stories from playing on a pvp server of alliance asshatery, but the reality is, as you’ve pointed out, that there are just as many corresponding stories of horde asshatery.

    I’d love to leave it here, but really, the pvp mentality brings out bad in people whether or not you can communicate with them. pvp in Everquest was just as bad if not worse, and you could curse them out after they corpse-camped you.

    The kind of “red is dead” mentality you allude to at the end of your article is why I don’t play on a pvp server anymore, and why I’m extraordinarily annoyed that it’s possible to easily flag people for pvp under certain conditions (flagging and running into a person’s AoE, flagging and dancing on top of corpses that a person is looting, etc etc)

    I’m not buying your “pvp is roleplay” argument, though. πŸ˜‰

    • Well, really all I’m saying at the end is that if you (not you specifically, but you in general) justify members of the opposing faction being kill on sight with the war you’re establishing motivations for your character’s actions within the context of the game world and, therefore, have taken your first baby step toward becoming a roleplayer. πŸ˜‰

  2. You stoles my blog title.

    Honestly, though, it (among so, so many other things) makes me roll my eyes when people curse the Horde and their Magical IWIN PvP Skillz and come *this* close to Godwinning all over guild chat/vent.

    I’ve guild kicked people for severe asshattery in PvP as well. When you get no fewer than 5 Hordies rerolling alts to complain to your GL – you’re gone.

    • hrm… We’ve several guildies who could easily become the target for that… I think half of them are officers (and othewise totally nice guys) >.>

      • Imposs has a reputation to maintain. If you’re tarnishing that rep – even in PvP, though we’re a raiding guild – I don’t want you around.

        There’s such a thing as honourable combat, yano.

      • I call them on it when I feel like they’ve gone too far. I haven’t had any complaints (yet) so I am mostly content to just leave them be.

  3. I’m an RPer with my mains on a PvP server. I’m still carebare-flavored, but I’ll bring the hurt down on your ass if you ask for it.

    In my case, though, “asking for it” means camping me. Kill me once? Whatever. PvP server. I’ll move on.

    Kill me 5+ times and prevent me from questing, and you’ve lost your right to bitch when my guildies descend on you en masse and do the same to YOU.

    I accidentally killed a hordie last night-he was almost dead, and I alt tabbed and shot without paying attention. *coughs* His buddy took exception to that, but the poor guy (level 77) couldn’t go up against a 79 hunter and holy paladin. We killed him every time he attacked us, but left him alone otherwise. He was pretty ballsy running up and trying to skin my kills later, though. LOL.

  4. Red = Dead Nuff said

  5. That is the point of a pvp server though…..the alliance and horde are enemies and at war, if they weren’t we would probably be able to speak to them. πŸ™‚

    Camping is taking it too far, but killing an opposing faction member as you pass by? Totally normal and possibly required (unless of course you are a holy priest, in which case, I leave quickly hoping they didn’t see me, but if I have a friend with me?)

    At least, it seems to me, that in all the books, horde and alliance characters do in fact attack on site, unless they are near a leader who has told them not too (sanctuaries). The attitude here is the one from lore, of course, repeated camping would not fall into that category as in the books, once you die…well, you are dead.

    It’s interesting how this plays out with faction changes….and previously alliance players from our server joining our horde guild…

    And, being able to camp and pvp with the alts of longstanding horde guild members who bring their alliance alts to the server… (this is really fun, lol, get all the allies and hordies involved in one vent channel, its great)

    • I will happily kill anyone I know that faction transferred if I happen to see them in WG. Repeatedly. πŸ˜€

  6. I have never been like this. I figure that everyone is here playing a game and I have no reason to be going out of my way to annoy them. I have even helped horde out before and they have helped me. Honestly I have more trouble with my own faction being jerks that I do with the opposing faction. Then again it could be that I expect Horde to try and beat me to a node or to a named mob.

  7. It’s natural to get sucked into this attitude when you just start out. I know I did. Rolling both cures it.

    Playing Horde on Outland EU (PvP) was camp-rage hell. Ally on Defias EU (RPvP) was fine don’t recall ever being camped (although I know it goes on a bit), many Ganks of Honour of course.

    Pretty sure it’s the RP that is the difference not the faction.

  8. Okay, Seri. We can go steady.

    • !!


  9. I always remind complaining pals/guildies that we’d do exactly the same thing to the Hordies given the opportunity.

    Best ever, a single horde flagged at the meeting stone, we go for the gank, his buddies show up outta-nowhere and prove to be more than a match for us. lol.

    PVP = exactly that.

    Worst ever, being a noob trying to do defias messenger quest and higher level hordie intercepting the right-click to flag us, then killing and camping us. After figuring out to wait until unflagged, being noobs, he managed to flag us again. Eventually a level 70 was recruited to help out – he felt bad afterwards cuz the hordie died before his cheap-shot wore off. lol

    Really though, on a PVP server? NEVER complain about PVP. Not on a PVP server? Its *not* that hard to avoid getting flagged, lol.

  10. Well, I’d look at it from a psychology perspective. In groups and Out groups (AKA: Us and Them). Us are unique special snowflakes, Them are an anonymous, unidentifiable mass. It’s standard procedure that everyone who is not Us are identical, thus the one person being a prick means they all are pricks.

    Except for that damn Shadowfrost Deathknight Mcdee from the guild on Dreadmaul… camp my tank doing Sons of Hodir dailies for 20 minutes, I swap toons and come back a couple of hours later and he’s *still* there… He and his guild are kill on sight for any of my toons.

    Yeah… perhaps it’s better to be an unidentifiable mass…

    • That guild was Like we Care… apparently comments don’t like the > < tags that I put around it

  11. I’d love to have some normalisation in PvP though because while on the 1 hand I play on a PvP server, being 1-shotted while leveling by max level character is just aggravating.

    I like PvP, I fight my duels lose more then I win. But not being able to retaliate other then bringing your “main” on is shit.

  12. I’d like to add to my comment: I’m not a player that usually starts world PvP. Some of the techniques like “flagging” players are things I don’t recognise so I think they’re only done a PvE servers.

    But…..I leveled several characters and the amount of PvP you experience is different on each class. I leveled my warrior as pot and was hardly attacked, maybe two or three times in the 70-80 run. On my shaman it sometimes felt like I was more corpsewalking then qusting and on my rogue, well my rogue simply wasn’t seen by enemy players a lot.

    My priest is a bit of a mix.

  13. As an avid PVPer, I’ve seen a lot of patterns in BGs. Mostly, its about time of day. Wintergrasp is often won by the Alliance, except early in the mornings. During the day on a weekday, almost all the BGs are consitently won by Horde, except for AV. It used to be during the weekday after midnight the Alliance would start to 4-cap all the node BGs. Its usually a safe bet that the Horde will win whatever the daily is, and that it will take a few times to get said daily done as Alliance.

    Also, WSG is apparently the Horde’s favorite BG in our battlegroup. Win or Lose, in AB the Horde will do whatever it takes to recap the BS. Its kinda creepy actually, my arena buddies and I always point it out when it happens. (look who’s got BS – AGAIN). And of course, the Alliance loves their last stand at the stables.

    The Alliance winning AV is a pretty sure bet (I like to make that more of a sure bet by bringing my entire arena team and defending one of the bunkers).

    Isle we win about 50/50, SOTA is weird. The Alliance seem to give up way too easily. SOTA is always a frustrating BG on my battlegroup.

    Basically, every night I try all the BGs, and try to see where the trends are that night. It could be that tonight AB is being roflstomped by the
    Alliance and EOTS is being won by the Horde. However, just comparing my WSG marks to, say, my EOTS or AV marks, it is clear that there are trends on my particular battlegroup.

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