Seri sez: Who was that masked (wo)man?

August 13, 2009

I wish I got to wear cool masks, but nooooo. Gargoyle heads. >.<I like to PUG. There, I said it. I know it’s crazy… I know everyone has horror stories (and I certainly have my own) and PUGs are often regarded with the sort of distaste reserved for rotting limbs and dirty diapers. Still, something lures me back to LFG time and time again. Heck, sometimes I’ll even just throw myself in LFG without even bothering to ask my guild if anyone wants to run something.

I like the sort of independence that comes from going out and doing stuff on my own, and it’s kind of fun to be incognito. For all that I may belong to one of the top raid guilds on the server, the masses by and large don’t really know/care. I’m just another Rogue, until someone bothers to inspect me and/or notices just how high my damage output is. People ask me… “Does your guild raid?” and I snicker to my self and reply, “Occasionally.”

One of the down sides (or is it another up side?) to being a nobody, however, is that when people decide to be jerks they really don’t know who they’re dealing with. For example, I recently joined a PUG for the Heroic Daily. They were still down a tank when I joined, so I settled in for what could be a long wait. About 10-15 mins later, I notice something odd… I’m no longer in a group. Now, guild chat had been pretty chatty so I thought maybe I missed the party being disbanded for wont of a tank. I scroll up, and a few minutes earlier in the chat log I see:

You have been removed from the group.

That’s it, just seven offending words in system-message-yellow with no accompanying message in party chat or whisper. WTF? I whisper the party leader and he’s like “Sorry man, I had to make room for a guildie.”

Huh. Well, it’s not like I’ve never done that before myself but it was kind of rude to just remove someone and not say a word. If you’re gonna do it, be up front about it yanno? But hey… his loss, he doesn’t know what he’s missing. There are other fish in the sea, etc.

The story should end here. It doesn’t.

Later that day, a new application pops up on the guild forums that has me rolling on the floor laughing. It’s the guy that kicked me from his PUG. That’s right… he unceremoniously kicked one of the GMs of the raid guild he wants to join. I wasn’t even on an alt!

I have to admit, the idea of inviting him to the guild and then /gkicking him 10-15 minutes later without a word has a certain je ne sais quoi. Fortunately (for him, anyway) I’m not quite that petty. Almost, but not quite. πŸ˜‰



  1. As a certain frost mage of mutual acquaintance used to say: “Low on productivity, high on comedy!”

    I actually do enjoy pick-ups, as they’re a great way to meet and play with fun new people. Sure, sometimes you get the guy who can’t manage to break 200 dps on his moonkin, but you also run into crazy awesome people who make your day.

    Also they make me feel really, really good about MY competence πŸ˜€ Although they do tend to get me killed since “slow down” and “watch your threat” are not really in my vocabulary >.>

  2. “it’s not like I’ve never done that before myself” – I haven’t and I never will remove anyone from my group without letting him/her know why.

    • Seri doesn’t boot without warning, either. She was more specifically talking about booting someone for a guildie.

    • Yeah, what Jov said. I have removed someone for a guildie before, but it is very rare and I always tell them why up front. Doesn’t mean they like it, but… so it goes.

    • I’m not sure how informing someone first makes it better. Personally, I won’t kick anyone who has invested any amount of time in waiting for the group to form. If they’re not able to carry their weight in the instance — sure. But before we even zone in, because a friend or guildie decides that they want to come after the group has started to form? No.

      • It’s very situational. I would be very unlikely to kick someone that had been patiently waiting a long time for the group to fill up. Heck, I’ve probably only been in a situation of removing someone to make room for a guildie maybe twice in my whole WoW career. These days, I don’t even start my own PUGs because I herd enough cats on raid nights. πŸ˜‰

    • We recently had this blow up in our face. See I refuse to boot out a pug member unless they did something bad. If we form up a group and a guildy get on after…too bad we are full.

      Last week we were putting together an Undying run. One of our guildies that signed up said he could not make it due to some internet issues he has been having. So we formed up the group grabbing a couple people we did not know and got in the instance. During trash pulls the guildie logs back on and says he can go. He expected us to boot a pug member and we explained to him that we never do that and that he knew that. He got mad and gquit.

      He got over it and apologized. We welcomed him back. He lost his temper and reacted rather than thinking it through. Anyhow I know he still feels “guildies should come first”, and honestly they should, but to me this is not preferring a pug over a guildie. To me it is just doing what is right.

      • Seems reasonable to me, Ays. Your position I mean, not your temperamental guildie’s. πŸ˜‰

      • I had a previous Vault experience with gear checks as well.

        I popped into Dal from a guild Uld raid and saw in trade that a 25man Vault was starting up. I already knew the person advertising it from my friends’ list as a great warlock with a cool sense of humor so I whispered her about being available to heal for the raid. I then switched out of my social (in-town, instantly on) gear into my healing set.

        Good thing I did because she whispered back that the raid leader was wow-heros checking everyone before inviting them. She then checked out my gear (I was standing right behind her) and laughed that I was fine.

        Once invited in, I saw that we were a few people short still. A druid’s name from one of the other guilds was offered up and the raid leader proceeded to check her out. He said no, that her gear sucked. Her guild members were stunned for a moment, checked and replied that she was in her PVP gear at the moment and that he just needed to check her heal-set. He said no. They pointed out that she had healed through Mimron in 10man. He said no. Finally, with one spot left, he said that we had enough people that he figured we all could ‘carry’ her and invited her.

        Said druid turned him down flat, as her guildies had informed her of his previous words about her. I made sure to /cheer her.

  3. A good story, by the way. Certainly made me smile.

  4. Did you view the application with an unbiased eye or give him one strike from the beginning. I am sure you were very fair. Interesting to see if he reads this blogg
    I wonder if many people read this blogg and go “oh crap that was me being a jerk”
    Probably most don’t even get it.

    • I tried to view the application on its own merits, but my unique perspective was difficult to dismiss. After all, reviewing applicants is about more than just their gear/skill. Being a known jerkwad is a definite con.

      • I think she did the right thing turning him down. Basic manners come first – before gear, raiding experience, dedication or any other criteria. I wouldn’t even review the app.

  5. *snickers*

    I like the occasional PuG when I’m DPS and not a healer. Or tanking. I have run into a decent PuG or two when I was tanking, though, but being a DK I put out so much AoE threat (and made sure to lay SOMETHING down on each target) that they had a hard time pulling off me even if they were being morons.

  6. There’s a lot of fun to be had pugging as an overgeared healer too. People tend to realize that Bad Things are happening, even if they don’t understand that it was their own personal idiocy that caused it. So you heal through the Bad Things, but then people know Bad Things are afoot, so they panic, and do even more Stupid Things. The results are occasionally hilarious and always worth it.

  7. I think one of my best experiences pugging was when I had a friend of mine try to get me into a VoA he was in because they needed another healer. I whispered the raid leader and got the invite. A few minutes later, I saw those aggrivating seven words saying I had been removed. I whispered the raid leader and she said that she wanted to bring a guild pally healer.

    Okay, no biggie, I understand. That was a pretty dick move not to say anything to me, but none the less I shrugged it off. Twenty minutes later, I get a tell from the same girl asking if I would come back.

    I giggled to myself and said why not? I joined the group right as someone has posted meters. That wonderful pally healer she wanted to bring was doing a MASSIVE 300 hps on recount. WTF!? I could do that naked in a feral spec. /facepalm It can probably be guessed the pally was obviously kicked from his own guild run.

    I get in the instance, and the first thing the raid leader said was “Wow… that’s some healing gear, sorry about kicking you before.” Now I’m not a spiteful person, so I gave her a little :p face and we went on as nothing had happened.

    • Oh man, VoA PUGs could be a whole other post. I’ll never forget the time I respec’d between Disc and Shadow like four times because of constant raid comp changes.

  8. This kind of situation is pure gold. My cynicism may be showing but somehow I doubt this guy will learn his lesson regardless.

  9. I love pugging as you never know what you get and the challenges you will face.

    I tanked Heroic CoS yesterday with a low DPS group and a healer with a tiny mana pool. We wiped a couple of times before we figured out a strategy to make the healer’s mana pool last longer. It took over one hour and it was fun.

    I also tanked Heroic Nexus in 23 minutes (a new record for me) with a high DPS group. The fun part was holding aggro from three players whose gear are a tier higher than mine.

    I remember running Deadmines with 4 mages and a priest, playing ping-pong aggro all evening long. We wiped a number of times but it was hilarious.

    I remember tanking Karazhan (before it was nerfed) with 2 resto druids and 7 hunters… Random placement of traps created a few situations when all mobs were trapped before they even got to me!

  10. I have come to enjoy pugging, though I prefer guild runs. Guild runs are more social for me and fun, but I have met some great people pugging. If I had stuck with just guild runs I’d really have missed out on a lot. Now there have been those pugs that make me regret it all, though luckily not in awhile. I will say most the OS groups I get into are filled with people that do not know what void zones are and cannot avoid a fire wall for anything….however OS is so easy it doesn’t really matter.

    The thing that really caught me in this post is people not noticing your gear. WOW…my server must just be nosy as hell! I am not in a big raiding guild. Guild I am in focuses on 10 man raiding and is relatively casual. However I get my gear commented on constantly. In an OS the other day Raid leader put me in charge of assigning healing based solely on my gear. Well he tried to. Actually I just whispered the one other healer in the group I knew was good and we each picked a tank to baby sit. πŸ™‚

    • It’s probably because I’m DPS… DPS are a dime a dozen on our server. It’s interesting, though, to see how the rising popularity of tools like Wowhead’s Profiler affects how people recruit for PUGs. I often see advertisements for PUG raids with minimum gear score requirements now. Not so much for Heroics, but the other day I did answer a call for a ‘well geared’ DPSer and the group leader came and inspected me before he would offer an invite. Caveat emptor, I suppose!

      • Yeah I guess that could be it. I do not really play DPS so I do not know. People do like to use achievements and gear scores to fill pugs now. Honestly in some ways it annoys me, but on the other hand I understand why. I have seen some wonderfully geared players who completely sucked and those same players can get the achievements just by being carried through a group in the first place. On the other hand I find that when I join a pug that has gear requirements they tend to be smoother than if not.

        LOL….Awhile back I joined a H. VoA and one of the healers was in almost all greens. Some people just have ZERO common sense.

  11. PUGs are my escape from guild leadership. I can do what I want and leave if things go badly with no political consequences. I can need on crap that’s a marginal upgrade, a sidegrade or ‘experimental gear’ without a gear-hungry guildie crying that it’s a bigger upgrade for him.

    I always gear-check PUG members, and if I see a problem I can remove them or leave myself (yes, I explain why).

    The biggest benefit I see in PUGs though is that they’re FAST. You see, for a guildie, I would wait. But in a PUG, I’m under no obligation to wait for someone to put their kids to bed or take out the garbage or feed the dog. If you get a bad pug, you leave and find a good one (often within seconds at peak times). If you get a good one, you can knock out 3 heroics in an hour.

    • I wish it were that easy for DPS on my server. I thought that the badge changes would make Heroics more abundant… I’m not sure if it really has, I still spend a lot of time sitting around looking for a group. Even worse is that Trade chat is the new LFG on our server, so it’s all but impossible to quest/herb/whatever while looking for a group. :/

      • ITS NEW on your server! Its been like that forever on ours! LFG button thing goes virtually unused in my experience. I feel your pain about not being able to herb while trying to find a PUG. You can craft only so many potions 😦

    • But I’m totally with you on the ‘break from leadership’ standpoint.

    • At least you let them know why you’re dropping them. Once fresh out of WG, I was invited into a PuG, accepted, and was ported immediately. Upon arrival, I was nearly immediately booted, no reason given. When I asked why, I was rudely told my gear was more than sub-par. Since I was still in my PvP gear (and having not PvP’d much, it wasn’t up to the level I preferred), it did make a difference. When I switched into PvE gear, and commented openly that my gear wasn’t good enough – why, suddenly another invite appeared. I declined and when asked why, my parting comment was “Rude raid-leader.”

      I whistled as I flew away.

  12. I think everyone can agree that another good point in pugs is that when you get that snotty ass 14 year old kid who not only doesn’t know how to gear or play his class, blames wipes on the rest of the group, and is so obnoxious about the gear he wants out of certain heroics regardless of the rest of the groups interests, you can simply click his portrait, select remove… then /ignore saidperson.


    I find that to be a good subtle hint to some players.

    • Who says I don’t use that tactic in guild runs too? >.>

      • god. no kidding. …. sometimes

  13. Ha! That little bit of revenge in your head as you read that app must have been sweet! Were I in your position, I don’t know if I could keep myself from making some snarky comment in his recruiting thread though…

    But really, if you’re apping to a guild (especially one of the top guilds) I would imagine that you would look to see who the GMs were and if I noticed that one of the names was one of the people I kicked? I wouldn’t have the balls to app after that.

  14. Seriβ€”ILU. And I’m glad I’m not the only crazy person who likes to PUG.

  15. I joined 2 25 man naxx runs last night. yeah, I was slumming. I don’t think there is honestly one piece of reasonable gear that I haven’t already DEd there.

    1st pug: i’m checking people out – some real lowbies, but there were some geared people to balance out – was thinking maybe they were alts – most of these people came from one guild. Anyway, we pull the beetle and wipe before the guards are killed. New thought: not alts – just new 80s. I rezzed and hearthed. back in dalaran.

    2nd pug: another casual guild run – about 50% pugged. Some lowbies, but it’s a really good mature group. We get through 3 quarters. I wish I could finish it up with them tonight, but duty calls. Maybe I can at least get them through Razuvius.

    Did I mention that good pugs (either hosting or joining) are also a great recruiting tool?

  16. @Ptitza
    I completely agree about PUGs being used as a recruiting tool. When my guild had a small fallout of it’s 25 man members, we were looking to gain more to get ready for Ulduar 25. Unlike a lot of people on our server, we didn’t want to spam in Dal that we were looking for people for our 25 man raids because we like to base out guild and raid composition on not just gear and stats but also personality and compatability with the rest of the guild. The last thing we wanted to recruit were loot whores who wanted to be carried through 25 man content and bitch when they couldn’t get something.

    For about a month we hosted Naxx 25 pugs, and every week we added something new to the loot system to keep pugs coming back. We ended up merging with another guild and we recieved a lot of PUGs who not only were awesome at thier job, but were also people everyone else got along with in vent. Ever since starting Ulduar 25, it’s been hard trying to find time to schedule another recruitment PUG run, we’re just kind of unsure to lean towards Naxx 25 pugs, or Ulduar 10 PUGs.

    It’s hard trying to bring someone into Ulduar 25 with little to no Ulduar 10 experience even if they do have the Naxx 25 level gear to permit them to walk comfortable into an Ulduar 25 and hold thier own.

  17. pugs are like a grab bag – sometimes they go so well, you end up running with the same people for the next couple of hours (and often add them to friend’s list) and sometimes, its like that earwax candy from harry potter…with a lingering flavor too.

    But no matter what it is, personally – I will never kick a pug for a guildie out of an already established group. Just like I won’t leave a pug group I’m in, just because a guildie beckoned. The only reasons for me to kick someone or leave are those that would cause my actions whether a guildie was available or not.

    That said. I might be more vindictive then you are, because I actually got someone I despise kicked out of a group on a strength of my personal dislike alone… just like they did with me before (I did not however save them to the run, but that’s mostly because I couldn’t tolerate them being in a group with me long enough to do so). And boy, did it feel goood πŸ™‚

  18. Old post, I know, but it made me laugh. Here’s my similar story: My guild was in Booty Bay doing a group shot for the recent contest Blizzard was having. Some random mage wandered in as people came and left as we were setting up (we were in the inn). My guildie that was organizing it politely asked him to step out of the shot, but apparently he didn’t listen and so proceeds to set up a PORTAL so he alone could leave BB instead of just teleporting out. (This irks me greatly since I play a mage.) Later, he apps to our guild saying he “saw a toon named so-and-so” (the girl setting up the shot). We had a good laugh about it in guild chat and promptly declined his app.

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