Jov snarks: On Raiders

October 10, 2008

There is a difference between casual and bad.  Need that again?  There is a difference between casual and bad.

I’m sick of people claiming to be one to excuse the other.

Casuals aren’t stupid.  They know what their talents do, how to optimize their spec for their job, proper spell/ability rotations, etc.   They bring consumeables.  They read boss strats in advance.

Casuals are good players who maintain a life outside of WoW.

Casuals don’t want to raid 6-nights a week.  They don’t want to spend all of their WoW-time farming.  They’re less-concerned with spending hours with calculators and WWS reports to wring out that one more point DPS.  They believe in bettering themselves, but don’t feel the need to get an aneurysm doing it.

Casuals are players who give 100% when raiding, but do not feel that raiding is the most important thing.

Don’t hide behind the “we’re casual” excuse if you aren’t willing to read the tooltips on your abilities or talents, or figure out how to spec and why.  Basic knowledge of your class is not the sole responsibility of the hardcore and elitist.

Don’t claim to be casual if you can’t be bothered to bring consumeables and reagents, or even repair money.  Sure, flasks are expensive.  But you know what’s cheap?  Buff-food, health and mana pots, and bandages.  Not bringing them just means you’re bad, cheap AND lazy.

Being casual doesn’t excuse you from reading boss strats.  Most bosses only have one or two things you need to know before fighting them.  If you’re incapable of skimming a strategy, or even listening to the Raid Leader’s recap before the fight, you’re bad.  Also, if you can’t manage “don’t stand in stuff that hurts you” you need to just quit raiding in it’s entirety.  When it comes down to it, that’s what 90% of encounters are: get away from the crap that’s hurting you.

Don’t wave the casual flag because you’re lazy, or incompetent, or terminally incapable of improving yourself.  You’re giving the real casuals a bad name.



  1. I’m glad to finally hear someone call out the “casuals”. I’m casual but still bust my butt when raiding, and why not? There’s no excuse to know what you’re doing in a raid, unless you RL sprung it on you, (like the first time I went to ZA).

  2. AMEN!

  3. Totally agree

  4. We recently considered changing our guild ranks to things such as “Knows how to click tear”, “Doesn’t stand in the fire” and “Kills all constructs”.

    Well written, Job, well written indeed.

    Proudly supporting casuals who actually know how to play.

  5. Hear hear, totally agree. I’m a proud and casual 10-man raider, who’s currently 5/6 in ZA and always trying to deliver 100% to squeeze the last bit of performance out of the raid. I only do so a lot less often than more hardcore raiders.

  6. Double plus plus good on this one. Even casual guilds that spell out what “casual but not a dumbass” means in charters occasionally pick up some really shady characters. Ugh!

  7. @ Everyone — Wow, I wasn’t expecting such a response. I was actually kinda hesitant posting this, as it’s much more serious and ranty than Snarkweek was intended to be, but… I just couldn’t do this topic without getting worked up.

    So goodbye sense of humor. Evidently I didn’t really need you this time 🙂 Thank you all.

  8. @Jov – No no no, your sense of humor is wonderful! Please don’t throw it out the window. =] A serious post every now and then is acceptable though.

  9. @ Myssidia — Oh I intend to. I was only somewhat bemoaning the fact that the week we designed to be FULL of our sense of humor (overfull, maybe? our humor floweth over?) ended with me losing the theme and going all serious and angsty. 😉

  10. Personally, I am content that our ‘snark’ tag is now the largest in our cloud.

  11. @ Seri — o.O Silly and Raiding are as large as Snark on my tagcloud.

  12. I still have not decided if I’m a casual player or not, but regardless I always come prepared. I research my class and encounters. I try to gear myself to the best of my ability. None of these things really take that much time. At the end of a raid I immediately get repairs and then check my bags to see what I’m running short. I then restock what I’m missing if I have it in my bank or send emails to whichever of my multiple alts is in charge of that consumable. Yes…ummm…I’m an organizing freak. Really though…it doesn’t take all that, my way just works for me.

    I belonged to a casual guild at one point that thought casual meant expecting nothing out of anyone. They did not have clearly stated rules and refused to enforce the rules they had. It was complete chaos and I seriously couldn’t handle it. I told the officers that being casual doesn’t mean not having any order. They did not agree….I left.

    I guess really what it all comes down to is finding others that are willing to put up with you the way you are. So if you want to play without any knowledge, wearing whatever crap gear you choose, and refusing to use mana pots….go find other people that are the same. You won’t get far, but you want be making me pull all my hair out. Also do not pug with me!

    Final note on that pugging thing….I ran Heroic BM (well part of it) the other day with a lock that said his spec was “master” whatever the hell that is. :s

  13. At the risk of horrible flaming death, I’m going to slightly disagree. What you describe here might be a casual (or more accurately, ‘occaisional’) raider, but they’re not casual in general–they’re still quite a serious WoW player. A casual WoW player, on the other hand, will not care to spend much thought on the mechanics, or maybe they value aesthetics over effectiveness, or maybe they just like to hang out with people and if that happens to be inside a large forbidding castle inhabited by the ghosts of dead mages, hey, it’s interesting scenery. (I suspect that many of these people play hunters…)

    Regardless, it seems very much an issue in the realm of managing expectations. The problem is not that these people exist, but rather that they unintentionally group with people who expect them to be something other than what they are. An all-double-casual group would probably work out fine:
    “Hey, want to go explore Steam Vaults?”
    “Sure, why not. Never been there yet.”
    [seven wipes later]
    “Man, that naga lady is some serious business.”
    “Yeah, that sucked. That lightning storm thing is killer.”
    “Tell me about it. Hey, want to go hold a dancing competition in Goldshire?”
    “Sure, let’s go!”

    This is not to say that idiots don’t exist, just that not everyone will care about how exactly hit rating works, or how many points of spirit equals a point of mp5, or anything beyond “higher is better” and “hey, look, the floor’s on fire.” You could argue that when in a group they should exhibit a radically higher level of diligence than this, but equally valid is the argument that if they are known to be this way, then they shouldn’t have been invited to a group that expects more in the first place.

  14. Jov, what a great post. This problem with “lazy” ppl is what has driven me to just pvp now. I’ve had it up the ying yang with druids with no seeds and shamans with no anhks (or however you spell it). Would it kill someone to drink a potion when there in danger and the tank is going down fast!!
    I have gone so far as to copy and paste boss fights from wiki just before the fight and some ppl just don’t or won’t read it. (they must be stoned)
    I have great guildies but as where mostly all parents its hard to get on at the same time for a longer than an hour.
    PS I’m so glad you have your own blog now. You were my fave all along 🙂

  15. THANK YOU.

    I am a “casual raider” by virtue of the fact that medical conditions prevent me from raiding more than 2-3 nights a week; some weeks, not even that.

    Aside from that, I’ve been accused of having a “hardcore” attitude by some. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I’m serious about my gameplay and coming prepared. Sure, I have bad days like everyone and I screw up. But I do the best I can, and some people? I can’t even say that much of.

    It infuriates me to no end when people want to blame their suckitude on “I’m a casual!” Sorry, but having limited playtime or a dislike of hardcore stringency doesn’t mean you automatically have no clue what you’re doing, TYVM.

  16. Don’t wave the casual flag because you’re lazy, or incompetent, or terminally incapable of improving yourself. You’re giving the real casuals a bad name.

    Word. It’s especially lazy when guild banks are stuffed full of consumables, and the raid leader and other raid members post links to strats and simulators in the forums and folks can’t be bothered.

  17. Excellent article. “Basic knowledge of your class is not the sole responsibility of the hardcore and elitist.” Bravo!

  18. Excellent Post!

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