Comments on: Seri sez: How to apply to a raid guild without looking like an idiot. — WotLK Edition

By: Jov sez: It’s Tuesday? « World of Snarkcraft

Jov sez: It’s Tuesday? « World of Snarkcraft — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 05:11:17 +0000

[...] Jov’s Guide to Getting Ready to App to a Raid Guild 101. You might want to take a peek at Seri/Qiani’s guide here, too. I hope I don’t make your eyes glaze over with my [...]

By: wowconomics

wowconomics — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:09:09 +0000

I wish everyone who App’d to my guild read this. Its not hard to show your semi serious about the game. It always makes me cringe when I see someone app with out gems/enchants, or has a horrible spec.

By: Blee

Blee — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:42:07 +0000

I don’t think ranking gear that high is unfair, though, and while it won’t tell you if the player is a social fit, it can say a lot about the player.

I’ve seen people app with the highest level of gear with vendor bought gems, with the most basic of enchants (+5 health to bracers FTL), with no idea of how to gear their character or what upgrades are appropriate for them. Those same people are usually the same ones who show up without reading a strat, who lol die in a fire, and who usually have significant play style problems. Not all, and sometimes there is a logical story behind those things, but when you’re apping and haven’t put thought or care into the things the raiding guild will be looking at, it says something about you as a player. And not a good something.

While gear isn’t everything, having taken my newly dinged 80 healing priest into Naxx 10 the other night with subpar gear (they were aware, but it was that or call the run), it was definitely a lot harder to do because my stats were low. Skill allowed for us to get through content most of that group hadn’t done – but gear would have made it a heckuva lot easier. My rosary got a work out on more than one fight.

By: Ganymeda

Ganymeda — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:18:40 +0000

Gear surly is very important – the whole game revolves around gear -.
I understand that “gear” ist the very important first impression but social skills are not to be left out.
The first question i have in mind if someone who seems to be a) skilled and b) well geared is:
Why the heck does he want to chance guilds? Is he a guild hopper? Did he buy the char of someone? Was the char powerleveled? Account stolen? Guild Drama?

We once hired three guys from a different server, from where the willingly transfered. Two weeks later we had serious guild drama. The guys were very skilled and well equipt. And the wanted to take over our Guild in some way. The knew everything better or different and all the stuff.

Well geared and skilled players with good social skills are so very rare on the “transfer market”, that you have to stick to applicants who are lacking in some department.
All i wanted to say is: If you have to take players who are lacking in some area, take the ones who are lacking in gear.

By: Charnal

Charnal — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 19:13:17 +0000

-Very- important. While the point is out there that gear doesn’t make the character, it certainly does, you know… help. Some guilds may be happy to take a player with a good attitude and solid skillset into their fold and help them grow gear-wise, but when we start talking about six-minute Maly, Immortal runs, or Sarth3D, that really isn’t an option.

Especially if the person is a healer or tank.

By: Seri

Seri — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:44:48 +0000

@ Ganymeda – If I placed a lot of emphasis on gear, that is because it belongs there. What is the first thing that a reviewer is going to do when they’re finished reading your application? Look you up in the armory. Heck, some reviewers will do it before they finish the application. Or even before they *start* because they don’t want to waste time on someone with obvious indications of being a moron. Skill doesn’t excuse bad gear choices. In fact, bad gear choices are indications of *lack* of skill (or, at least, indications of lack of knowledge and/or dedication.)

Is gear the only factor? Heck no. Is it a factor? Heck yes, especially if you are applying to a guild where no one can speak for your skill and/or integrity. You have to get your foot in the door, and gear is a very important factor.

Might things be different for an in-house applicant? Sure. You can make a lot of exceptions if you’re dealing with a known entity.

By: Ganymeda

Ganymeda — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:23:52 +0000

Some Notes:

-You rank gear very high
-my experience tells me that understanding of the game mechanics, anticipation and all the stuff that passes as “skill” beats gear all the time
-social / soft skills count even more
-you hire the “player”, not the “toon/avatar/char”
-you can gear someone up in no time, but you cant educate someone in 3 weeks
-we once needed a shaman for our 25 man raid and decided to have a well known member (with a overabundand and at that point useless char) level one up and geared him INSTEAD of hiring someone

By: Ninaske

Ninaske — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:19:46 +0000

One thing I’d like to point out is the advent of achievements. Pre-BC and during BC, someone could certainly say they were one of the (unfortunately) many people who raided as a casual member of another guild in respectable content, and never received much in the way of gear on-par with the content they were doing. In LK, you have a few options in this case.
A.) Speak with their former guild, ask or validation.
B.) Give them the benefit of the doubt.
or
C.) Take advantage of LK’s new developments! Check their achievements, see if they have credit for the content they’ve claimed.
An added bonus to the achievement addition is the fact that guild ranking is no longer dependent on gear (and WoWJutsu is now unreliable because of that), but rather achievements held by the majority of your guild. On my server, one of our top guilds (cleared 25m 3D OS) is ranked 3 spots behind one of our friend-guilds that hasn’t cleared 25m Naxx or 25m Maly as a guild, but the members do have gear from some of those fights due to PUGs or guilds they were previously in. The alternative: Wowprogress.com, achievement-based ranking. Enjoy.

Also, you are very valid in saying reviewers can smell BS a mile away. I recruited a guy about a week or so ago after he told me he’d cleared all available raid content, including 25m 3D Sartharion. Red flags came up during the course of the ensuing discussion, which I hope I haven’t been the first to notice with this player:
1.) He spoke with great conviction that the 25m version of 3D Sartharion is the most difficult fight in the game. This is not true. The 10m version is more challenging, ask anyone who has had the experience of it.
2.) He was in PVP gear every time I saw him around. And his spec had some (but not all) PVP talents. He explained to me that he doesn’t wear his raiding gear outside of raids, because “people try to ginvite me too much”. When I asked to see it, he linked me several items that did not bear enchants or gems. (Go Go Gadget AtlasLoot)
3.) When I finally decided just to check his achievements (I’d been holding out, trying not to be too cynical until I had to be), I lolled. A lot. This guy hadn’t even cleared all LK instances, and had only 2 heroics under his belt.

The verdict was obvious.

By: Pixelated Executioner

Pixelated Executioner — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:31:39 +0000

Pointing out an alternative here, but if I were in a raiding guild, one of the things I’d look for if someone wasn’t exalted with Sons of Hodir would be if they’re a scribe – Inscription’s shoulder enchants are way better, and Sons of Hodir isn’t necessary to be at max.

By: Ambrosyne

Ambrosyne — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:08:13 +0000

Oh but causing a wipe becuase you whispered the already easily distractable recruitment officer just as they pull 4H is FUN and a GREAT way to be recruited!

(Yes, that did happen and yes, I recruited him anyway. )